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Why – Navamsa so Important?
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[Participants: Vijayadas Pradeep, Madhu Nair, Sreenadh OG, Pandit Arjun, Dhanapal, Souvik Datta]

[Editor: Sreenadh OG]

 

 

 

 

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 [Thread: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_indian_astrology/message/292]

[This is a conversation record write-up prepared based on a thread happened in AIA Yahoo Group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_indian_astrology Please note that, many points from the original discussion might have been omitted here to make this readable]

Vijayadas Pradeep:

Spouse is sometimes termed as PraanaSakhi (beloved companion of Prana).Also Spouse is known as one half of Prana Siva and Sakti and Ardhanareeshwara -any connection?

Now Navamsa represent Nava Prana as per Dasadhyayi. Combining my own understanding with authentic words of Talakkulattu Bhattatiri (Dasadhyayi author), the relationship between Navamsa and Spouse can be linked. Thus studying the Navamsa sambandha (connection) of a Graha on relevant houses or Karaka planets, as mentioned in Classics seems to be correct and pretty clear than the contemporary understanding of Navamsa analysis.

 

Madhu Nair:

That is indeed an excellent explanation. Well done, Vijay, well done. I think this is one of the lost keys of unraveling the mystery of D-9, which in actual case studies, are found to be intrinsically connected with the spouse.  You have given us a very valuable Tip.

 

Sreenadh:

As per Parasara, Navamsa represent Spouse. Why? Do we have any explanation based on Dharma-Artha-Kama-Moksha signs?

[Editor: This question was raised just as a pointer, since 7^th house is Kama sign]

As per Dwadasa Varga system -

R x 1 (Kshetra)= signifies Lagna related things.

R x 2 (Hora) = signifies 2nd House related things.

R x 3 (Drekkana)= signifies 3rd House related things.

R x 4 (Chaturdhamsa)= signifies 4th House related things.

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R x 7 (Saptamsa) = signifies 7th House related things. (and Spouse)

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R x 9 (Navamsa) = signifies 9th House related things.

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R x 12 (Dwadasamsa) = signifies 12th House related things.

So as per this view, Saptamsa should represent Spouse etc, and Navamsa should represent Father etc. Hope this clarifies. I am eagerly waiting for more inputs and explanations.

 

Pandit Arjun:

Apart from what you have mentioned, which is correct, Navamsa is the only divional chart reckoned by all astrologers invariably before attempting any prediction. it is widely believed that a planet's strength increases or decreases from lagna chart when compared to its strength in navamsa. For example, if the strength of a planet in lagna chart is zero and in navamsa it is five, the net strength would be 2.5 and similarly if the strength in lagna chart of a planet is 5 and in navamsa it is -5 the net strength would be zero. The above quantification is only for simple understanding and not application of mathematics or any rules as such.

 

Sreenadh:

Navamsa gets double importance than any other Varga (Amsa) and that is the reason for its importance. They are-

1)       It is 1/9 th of a Sign. So it is importance as a 'Rasyamsa'.

2)       It is 1/4 th of a star. (This forms the base of Sign and Nakshatra divisions).

Thus due the combined effect of the above two reasons, ‘Navamsa’ most important as 'Nakshatramsa'.  So at the same time Navamsa is Rasyamsa (Division of Sign), and Nakshatramsa (Division of Star). To add to it -

3)       The luck (or destiny) of a person is what we are trying to decipher using the whole horoscope. In the horoscope the 9th house indicates Luck (Bhagya). There for 9th house is specially important in any horoscope. As per Dwadasa Varga system, the Varga that indicates 9th house related matters is Navamsa (R x 9). This also gives special importance to Navamsa.

It is due to the cumulative effect of all these that the saints gave special importance to Navamsa.

 

Dhanapal:

Thanks to all of you for sharing the vital knowledge and giving the beginners like us great in-depth into the ancient Indian astrology. I had some doubts in Navamsa and thought of posting them.

 1) What is the importance of Navamsa lagna? Is it only used for to verify that horoscope is correct? (For e.g. Navamsa lagna in male rasi for males and vice versa makes it clear that the horoscope possibly correct).

 

2) In rasi, we give importance to the placements of the lagna lord, the fifth lord and the ninth lord. Same thing should be considered for 1, 5, 9 lords in Navamsa chart too?

 

3) Do we have to consider the drishti for all the planets? (Ex: For Jupiter 5, 7, 9 drishti is there in rasi chart. Same thing applicable in Navamsa chart too?

 

4) Does Navamsa create yogas too? In rasi, we consider neecha-bhanga yoga, Guru-mangal yoga etc. Is the same thing applicable in Navamsa too or not?

 

5) The discussion of this thread is "Navamsa for spouse". What exactly we have to look into the navamsa chart to see whether one really has blessed married life? Then what is the focus to be given on saptamsa chart (7th) different than navamsa?

 

6) Does retrograde to planets applicable in navamsa chart too?

 

7) What is the relationship does Jupiter have in Kanya (Virgo)? Is it a friendly sign or enemy sign? One of the astrologers I met argued that it is enemy sign even though some of the books I read consider it as friendly sign.

 

Please forgive me if they are too basic. I thought this is the correct forum to clear my doubts. I feel this will be useful to many other members here.

 

Madhu Nair:

I will try to answer to my best of my ability purely on the basis of experience rather than what is given in the Rule book (read Text book). In Kerala, especially, well known and highly respected genuine scholars  in Astrology  of the old generation like Paravoor Sreedharan Tantri,  and the stalwarts of the modern era like Trikunna puzha Udayakumar etc are seen evaluating the D-9 in the following way, especially in prasna (Obviously they might be interpreting in the same manner in Horoscopes too I believe).

Consider Aries as the Ascendant. Suppose a planet is in 7* in Aries. Then, they say in Malayalam "Lagnathinthay munnil amshichirikunnu" That means, the planet begets an amsa in the 3rd from the Ascendant. I haven't seen them attaching any special importance to Navamsa Lagna. Navamsa chart has no independent existence and should be read along with Rasi chart.  However, they use to treat the depositor of a Rasi lord at par with the Bhava Lord as reckoned from the Ascendant. I will elaborate. Usually they say like this "Lagnathipano Lagnathipantay Amsakadhipano " That means "either the Ascendant Lord or its Navamsa depositor". Suppose Aries is the Ascendant and Mars is in Aries with a longitude of 4*, that means, the navamsa depositor of Mars is Venus. Whilst discussing the Ascendant lord and its implication, they invariably take into account its navamsa depositor, i.e. Venus.

Now regarding the question of Aspects in Divisional Charts -

Let me tell you from experience that Aspects apply exclusively to Rasi and definitely not to Divisional charts. Unfortunately a commentator of BPHS (SC Mishra)in one of his articles  says aspects are equally true in divisions. This is not borne out of experience. Anyone repeat anyone who interprets the divisional charts with aspects are just misguiding the gullible. A counter question should be posed to protagonist of aspects in Divisional charts "What about aspects in Hora chart" They will find their tongue tied.

Let me share my experience in Navamsa. I have seen planet in Fall in Navamsa or planet in Navamsa that forms 2/12 or 6/8 relationship with the major period in Navamsa adversely affecting married life. This scribe has got the good fortune to study hundreds of horoscopes  of Gulf wives.(wives of poor workers hailing from Kerala toiling   in Middle East  and who are not in a position to take their wives with them ) In many (not a Thumb rule) one  could find the MD forming 2/12 relation with the sub period(s) operating. Regarding Yogas in Navamsa, there is a concept "Rasi thulya Navamsa” That is, Navamsa is equivalent to Rasi chart (Don't misunderstand, D-9 has no independent existence and should always be read along with Rasi). If my memory is correct in the chart of Mohammed Ali, the famous boxing champion of yester years, you could find a yoga for parkinsonism in D-9.The point is D-9 often excels or modify the indications of Rasi chart though it cannot override it. Retrogression & Direction of planets applies only to Rasi chart and not to divisions. Virgo is the inimical sign of Jupiter. Hope this helps.

 

Sreenadh:

I am providing a chart here. Just for the sake of understanding how to super impose Rasi and Navamsa charts.

Date: January 17, 2004

Time: 6:30:00

Time Zone: 4:00:00 (East of GMT)

Place: 55 E 16' 00", 25 N 15' 00"

Dubai, United Arab Emirates

Altitude: 0.00 meters

 

Lunar Yr-Mo: Subhanu - Pushya

Tithi: Krishna Dasami (Mo) (43.12% left)

Vedic Weekday: Friday (Ve)

Nakshatra: Visakha (Ju) (51.34% left)

Yoga: Soola (Ju) (13.88% left)

Karana: Vishti (Sa) (86.23% left)

Hora Lord: Moon (5 min sign: Sc)

Mahakala Hora: Saturn (5 min sign: Ar)

Kaala Lord: Rahu (Mahakala: Saturn)

 

Sunrise: 7:09:14 (January 16)

Sunset: 17:48:06 (January 16)

Janma Ghatis: 58.3652

 

Ayanamsa: 24-38-35.91

Sidereal Time: 13:54:32

 

It is the chart style that should be kept in mind, while discussion ANY VARGA. Here Navamsa chart is super imposed on rasi chart. [If we discuss Drekkana then Drekkana (Rx3) chart would be placed above Rasi chart instead of Navamsa] Keep this kind of picture clear in mind while we talk about Navamsa or any varga. There is no independent validation of Navamsa 'chart' or D-9. In Navamsa we are examining how Rx9 will affect the native. The points Madhu ji told makes points clear such as:

·         Aspects (Drishti) apply exclusively to Rasi and definitely not to Divisional charts

·         No independent validation of Navamsa chart is advised.

·         Navamsa modifies the results of the Rasi chart.

I hope it helps.

 

Sauvik Datta:

I have a question on this.

Quote

"Divisional charts

* No independent validation of Navamsa chart is advised.

* Navamsa modifies the results of the Rasi chart.

Unquote

With the same Lagna in Rasi Chart, it is possible to have different Navamsa Lagnas. In this scenario, can't we use D-9 independently to rectify time of birth, keeping janma lagna fixed? Please do let me know your views.

 

Sreenadh:

You said:

Quote

 With the same Lagna in Rasi Chart, it is possible to have different Navamsa Lagnas.

Unquote

Right. But, it is better to state that, "With the same Lagna in Rasi chart, it is possible that 'Lagna Navamsa' could be in different Rasis (Signs)". That depicts the truth in a better way. Otherwise confusion may result.

Quote

In this scenario, can't we use D-9 independently to rectify time of birth, keeping janma lagna fixed?

Unquote

But friend, the point is: "The saints never ever spoke even a word about D-Charts! They were invariably mentioning about the Navamsa (Rx9)". It is not even necessary to say 'Navamsa Varga'. since, 'Navamsa' means 1/9th of a sign, and to find its position for any longitude, we just need to multiply the longitude with 9. That is why I use the syntax Rx9, meaning (Rasi) longitude x 9, which is a general method for mixing the characteristics of 12 Rasis. Thus it applies to all the 12 Vargas. For example-

R x 1 = 1st Varga (Kshetra)

R x 2 = 2nd Varga (Hora)

R x 3 = 3rd Varga (Drekkana)

R x 4 = 4th Varga (Chaturdhamsa)

R x 5 = 5th Varga (Panchamamsa)

R x 6 = 6th Varga (Shashtamsa)

R x 7 = 7th Varga (Saptamsa)

R x 8 = 8th Varga (Ashtamsa)

R x 9 = 9th Varga (Navamsa)

R x 10 =10th Varga (Dasamsa)

R x 11 =11th Varga (Ekadasamsa)

R x 12 =12th Varga (Dwadasamsa)

[where R = Rasi longitude]

There is only 12 Rasis and there for only 12 Vargas in this 'Dwadasa Rasi system', which is a method for mixing the characteristics of signs.

The other system called 'Shad Vargadhipa system', invariably considers 'the lords of signs' and is different from this. The higher multiples are part of the 'Vargadhipa' concept, and NOT the Varga concept. It is the mixing-up of the two that caused a lot of confusion. Understand this point clearly.

Now, coming to 'Birth rectification using Vargas' (NOT Vargadhipas) the system is given in Saravali. It starts with the first Varga (R x 1) then proceeds with the use of Hora (Rx2), Drekkana (Rx3) etc. It is given in `Nashta Jataka (casting of lost horoscope)' chapter of Saravali. The point to remember is that, in this method of Birth rectification, the character/nature of the native (which is the outcome of the mixing of sings) is given importance. "The saints were well familiar with the use of both these systems (i.e. Dwadasa Varga system and Shadvargadhipa system), and mentioned about them extensively in the texts". But it is the students, who confused them. Some Judases later corrupted them, by incorporating new concepts such as –

* D-charts [Phew..! Here the Amsa/Varga concept is converted to `Charts' which the saints never thought of]

* Drishti in D-charts [The saints never told even a word about, considering Drishti in Amsas/Vargas!]

* Transit in D-charts [This is the worst absurd of than the above two! As somebody stated, which reduces the menstrual period to days, if we are applying the well told yogas to these absurd D-charts!]

Now, one more point for especially for you: -

* Considering Vargas (Rx1……….Rx12) is a method for `Judging' lagna and the possible lagna longitude, rather than `calculating' the lagna longitude. Go through Saravali and it will become clear to you. Actually, there are 3 categories of methods for birth rectification –

1) Mathematical methods for calculating the lagna longitude.

2) Methods for verifying the exactness of the lagna selected.

3) Methods for judging the possible lagna longitude.

It is better to discuss the ‘birth rectification’ methods as a different thread.

 

Dhanapal:

Thanks a lot for the explanations provided in-depth. It cleared so many confusions I had. Another doubt - does planets position in the Navamsa based on Navamsa lagna is important? For example, Gemini is Navamsa lagna, Venus is in Virgo. What you will consider about the strength of Venus? Is it weak or has got some power since it is in Kendra/digbala. Also do we have to consider the planets position in the Navamsa based on rasi chart lagna?

 

Sreenadh:

Quote

Does planets position in the Navamsa based on Navamsa lagna is important?

Unquote

The answer is 'NO'. It is the placement of Navamsa 'relative to Lagna' that is important and not the one relative to 'lagna navamsa'. You have given the Navamsa lagna (better call it 'lagna navamsa'), but didn't mentioned which sign is Lagna. As per ancient system, the starting point for analysis should be the Lagna and not 'Lagna navamsa'. Varaha hora says "Langa navamsapa tulya tanu syat",

Meaning 'the body (of the native) is similar to that indicated by lagna navamsa' - it is one of the uses of lagna navamsa. Now you have stated that Venus is in virgo (In Rasi chart). That means Ve is in the sign of Me and is debilitated. Based on this minimum info you can get predictions related to –

1) Prediction given for the placement of Ve in Virgo.

2) Prediction given for a planet in debilitation.

3) If it is Ve-Me or Me-Ve dasa-antara then, predictions given for the Ve-Me combinations (since Ve is in the sign of Me) etc.

All the above you can get from standard texts. A combined consideration, of the above gives a holistic prediction for the placement of Ve for person. Varaha hora says, "Subho subharkshe ruchiram kubhotale", meaning the relation between a planet and a sign is like the relation between land and tree. Sign is the land and Planet is the tree. In the example you provided, Ve a good planet is in a bad land (sign), since Ve is its debilitation sign. That means the wife of the native, even though good would be from a bad (economical or otherwise) family. But here you can not emphasis this point, since Ve is natural significator for wife. The 7th lord is also significator for wife and so one needs to see that point as well before saying this to the native. See the predictions given for the above 3 in standard texts and you will see that many more things can be predicted on the bases of this.

Quote

Also do we have to consider the planets position in the Navamsa based on rasi chart lagna?

Unquote

Yes, you are right.

 

Dhanapal:

Thank you for the explanation Sreenadh ji.

 

[Editor: The thread ended there, providing some good insights about the Navamsa and its use]